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#46 Posted at 2012-12-19 07:46        
     
# DanWelch : So what your saying is...Palestinians pretty much have free movement above ground to and fro Gaza and Egypt, with parts of the wall missing?
"The Wall" is not a wall.
Both the border with Gaza and Egypt are made of an indicative fence. The only part it's actually a concrete wall is at "the knee". The NE corner of the strip, where the line changes from roughly east-west to roughly north-south.


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#47 Posted at 2012-12-19 07:52        
     
could one of you draw it out on the map which parts is a fence, which part is a wall and what parts have nothing at all? And send it to me so I can make this as accurate as possible. It does not have to be up to date realistically speaking, just give me a general Idea. I can tell from what galzohar has shown me is that the concrete wall is at the knee of the border in the pic(but most of it has been removed. What you are telling me is the rest is a series of steel and barbed wire fencing?


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#48 Posted at 2012-12-19 08:26        
     
# DanWelch : could one of you draw it out on the map which parts is a fence, which part is a wall and what parts have nothing at all? And send it to me so I can make this as accurate as possible. It does not have to be up to date realistically speaking, just give me a general Idea. I can tell from what galzohar has shown me is that the concrete wall is at the knee of the border in the pic(but most of it has been removed. What you are telling me is the rest is a series of steel and barbed wire fencing?
I have no accurate data on the Egypt/Israel border, as it is currently under construction, the plans are for it to be entirely inductive fence though.

What Gal was referring to with the wall and it's removal is the Gaza/Egypt border. Again, I have no accurate details for that, you can randomly depict it and it would be authentic.

As for the Gaza/Israel border, it is mostly inductive fence, aside for the "knee" (where the border curves, pretty much across from Beit-Hanon) it is a few km long, but I'm not going to specify exactly for obvious reasons. This wall is intact.

When I say indicative fence I mean this:
http://www.google.co.il/imgres?um=1&hl=iw&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=mQlTyoXBoY7vjM:&imgrefurl=http://news.walla.co.il/%3Fw%3D/551/2590704/1387628/5/%40%40/media&docid=ggAvk22URwSGAM&imgurl=http://mscwne.walla.co.il/w/w-700/1387628-5.jpg&w=700&h=449&ei=9nnRUKPGLoeP0AWAtoHgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=838&vpy=134&dur=1288&hovh=180&hovw=280&tx=169&ty=83&sig=111829910676856964858&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=216&start=0&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:97&biw=1920&bih=965

http://www.google.co.il/imgres?um=1&hl=iw&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=LkcugA9nQShPiM:&imgrefurl=http://www.btselem.org/hebrew/firearms/20060227_shooting_around_gaza_fence&docid=P3J9ihZDY7k2AM&imgurl=http://www.btselem.org/Shared/Images/Photos/20050725_Gaza_Barrier_Zero000.jpg&w=350&h=264&ei=9nnRUKPGLoeP0AWAtoHgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=637&vpy=126&dur=610&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=149&ty=73&sig=111829910676856964858&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=184&start=0&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:100&biw=1920&bih=965

The fence with Egypt apparently looks more like this:
http://www.google.co.il/imgres?um=1&hl=iw&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=9-uDeWqTKk41TM:&imgrefurl=http://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/1.1705170&docid=N4mBxzBjw7REmM&imgurl=http://www.haaretz.co.il/polopoly_fs/1.1705171.1336690351!/httpImage/1953426807.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_436_326/1953426807.jpg&w=436&h=326&ei=9nnRUKPGLoeP0AWAtoHgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=4&vpy=279&dur=417&hovh=194&hovw=260&tx=104&ty=85&sig=111829910676856964858&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=187&start=0&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0,i:136&biw=1920&bih=965

The wall at the knee is this:
http://www.google.co.il/imgres?um=1&hl=iw&safe=off&sa=N&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=rOVT16tyml3PHM:&imgrefurl=http://dover.idf.il/IDF/News_Channels/bamahana/07/42/02.htm&docid=qhkGiPGmLhxyKM&imgurl=http://dover.idf.il/NR/rdonlyres/A6658F6F-B767-4DF4-A693-57F945BD70EE/0/02jpgs.jpg&w=400&h=267&ei=qHrRUMe7BO-20QWBp4DQDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=580&vpy=284&dur=1198&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=141&ty=110&sig=111829910676856964858&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=206&start=0&ndsp=72&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0,i:136&biw=1920&bih=965


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#49 Posted at 2012-12-19 19:26        
     
Well, Here is the plans for the GAZA/ISRAEL BORDER...Since this is a futuristic map in the first place, there will be no border fence with Gaza/Israel (As with the storyline of the map, Israel has re-taken the Gaza Strip) No need for a fence/Wall. this is the ONLY Gaza map I plan to make and there is not much of the Israel/Gaza border in this map. (it is mainly egypt/gaza)

the only border fence/Wall I am going to place is the area of Gaza and Israel bordering Egypt. This will be a "New" fence in terms of not currently realistic or existing. I will make an effort to make the current security fence along the Israel/Egypt Border accurate. But due to the lack of current intel on the Gaza Egypt fence, I will use my imagination(which will not be far fetched.)

Thanks for the assistance with the photos. I will try to construct some kind of fence that looks like this.


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#50 Posted at 2012-12-19 20:34        
     
Yeah, that is a good idea to make up a story that explains any deviations from reality that are not feasible in game.


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#51 Posted at 2012-12-20 01:39        
     
With limited resources and objects this is the only option I have. Besides, I came up with the storyline well in advance when I began working on the map. For example, The Gaza Airport is closed/destroyed today, but in the map it is Simeon Air Base for the IAF. So this may not be realistic, but its not far from ordinary and definitely not impossible of occurring.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/281035_333788803385618_356662165_o.jpg

There will always be updates in the future that will enhance the maps, but I do not have much time nor the interest to place 100% accurate detail into this project. If this was the case I would never get anything done. Not to mention the issue of Israeli national security. I do not want to make it so detailed that it provides a realistic strategic layout of the land for the enemies of Israel to use as a training method. (anyone can mock me if they wish for this, I really don't care)

I want to continue to have fun working on this project as a hobby, So I am not going to make it a job of mine to please everyone. I will listen to any advice that could help me on this project and take it into consideration. This community is a great support and without the advice, I would not have gotten very far. But with that said Ultimate Realism comes at a price, which is why I am not making that my goal.

~Dan


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#52 Posted at 2012-12-20 17:31        
     
Well obviously you won't have exact copies of the buildings (which is what would be needed to truly use this for any kind of training), but the positions of buildings as can be seen on google earth is definitely something to consider. Same goes for any elevation data.

As for the border between gaza and Israel, even before the evacuation the fence was very much necessary. It had been and probably will be critical for Israel's security for a long long time. I'm pretty sure even if Israel went crazy and had the IDF re-take the Gaza strip, the fence between Gaza and Israel would remain standing and maybe even be improved upon.


On the Israel-Egyptian border there is an indicative fence being built, yes, but that's on the Israel-Egypt part, not the Gaza-Egypt part. Not sure what the Egyptians have going on on their side, but as far as I'm aware most of the wall that was built during 2005 is still up, even though on google earth I can only see what seems to be some parts of it.


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#53 Posted at 2012-12-20 22:30        
     
True, Security would still need to be maintained if it came to that scenario. Thanks for all of the help and information. I will do what I can with the fence. Besides i am still only limited to what ArmA 2 provides (Though I am trying to avoid having a lot of required third party addons for the map) So BIS is all I have to work with pretty much.


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#54 Posted at 2012-12-21 00:19        
     
If you absolutely had to use third party addons, you could include the pbos in with the map, so that you would have greater diversity among the buildings while simultaneously allowing users to just download the map without having to get 50 other things.


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#55 Posted at 2012-12-21 17:29        
     
3rd party addons are something you should definitely be careful and not just include everything, but then again you probably also shouldn't completely avoid. I mean, it is possible to live with just OA and Chernarus buildings, but if you find a pack that actually has awesome buildings that would really help your project, you shouldn't hesitate to use it. As long as you don't include a 500mb pack just for a building you use in 2 places on the entire map. In end end, people are generally more willing to live with a large download size than they are willing to live with a map that's really not that different than previous ones, but get annoyed when something is a huge download without any really justified reason.

Of course, for best results you would need to team up with people who know how to make Arma buildings and try get them to make some stuff for your map...

As for security, again, as long as you don't have any sensitive information (as in, you only use information you can find on the web and via casual conversations) you're not going to risk anyone's security.


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#56 Posted at 2012-12-22 01:46        
     
rgr, I see your point Gal. I will be using 3rd party addons, but not so much to enlarge the file to the point of causing dis-interest.

Added 22 hours 49 minutes later:

This will be the fence line which runs along the entire Egyptian border... I have also created a custom watchtower as well.
for more pics go to Israel Map Project(photobucket)



This post was edited by DanWelch (2012-12-23 00:35, ago)


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#57 Posted at 2012-12-24 08:34        
     
Looks very good.

Keep in mind such watch towers are common for Egypt, but are not in use by the IDF...


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#58 Posted at 2012-12-24 17:43        
     
rgr, This fence and tower types will extend only from the sea to the southern tip of Gaza, Then the fence and towers will look more like this extending southward along the egypt/Israel border,with no towers along the Israel side of the border.

This post was edited by DanWelch (2012-12-24 17:53, ago)


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#59 Posted at 2012-12-26 05:49        
     
Israel/Egypt Border (not finished) Pic taken from Egypt side.




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#60 Posted at 2012-12-26 08:35        
     
Loving the work mate, but im sure you would like an honest opinion? The work with your map is going
great, but just one thing im failing to see is that Israel is not so flat like your map is showing.
Why have you not added any hilly & ridge parts also small rivers & streams etc? Like the picture
above its just so flat and nothing like the post you made here.

Just giving my opinion mate, apart from that everything else is looking great :-)

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