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#106 Posted at 2012-09-13 06:46        
     
I just find a sense of weird irony in it all. Take what could very well be the most famous, "Secret" installation in the world, that being the infamous Area 51 and up until a decade or so ago, tourists used to always travel to that one cliff or ridge and while it was maybe 4 miles or so from the base itself, you could still see it. In reality, other than the runway, closed hangers and various other small buildings, it was a Ghost town during the day. I'm not even sure if people who worked there were even allowed outside during the day other than to get onto their private jet for their flight back to LV Intl. Airport at the end of their workday. And than........................
"Then X-Files" ended and the military decided to push the perimeter back even further, thus not allowing UFO hunters or tourists to return to the cliff. *JOKINGLY*


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#107 Posted at 2012-09-13 18:11        
     
http://www.protothema.gr/greece/article/?aid=222418 A greek online newspaper with much more info.Whoever wants,translate it and get your info.It's very informative.Whoever asked about the law I am currently looking for it.When and if I find it I will post it here.


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#108 Posted at 2012-09-13 18:16        
     
I hope that some of the Greeks here will translate that for us, cause Google translation makes me *WALL*


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#109 Posted at 2012-09-13 18:36        
     
# W0lle : I hope that some of the Greeks here will translate that for us, cause Google translation makes me *WALL*
I will.


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#110 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:12        
     
Be thankful that you can't read it, sensationalistic opinion crap.

With gems like:
-.... the experts had Google Earth for daily "partner", studying maps, choosing carefully the points to be photographed or videotaped and recording the daily road routes, without explaining whether their interest was directed to the movements of military vehicles or to ... bus routes! Many details about a computer game, isn't it?

Or

-Quoting Ivan Buchta: "Our effort is directly related to the requirements(?) of our military customers(?) needing display 1:1 (life-size) of the operative field!".
Who are these "military customers" and why do they have "requirements" from a game production company, does not explain the Czech director. However, if you consider that «Bohemia Interactive» has available to them every detail about weapons, missiles, helicopters and everything else in the latest technology of NATO, you easily can conclude that they were provided with rich material.
Did they get all of this for nothing? Or is the gathered optical intel expected as quid pro quo, and if so, will all NATO countries have access to the info, including those who we don't want ...?

The article has no new info.
The only info that could be relevant is the names of 2 BIS employees but this has nowhere been confirmed.
For all we know, he mentioned the names of the people from the previous trips.


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#111 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:24        
     
# rafael52 : http://www.protothema.gr/greece/article/?aid=222418 A greek online newspaper with much more info.Whoever wants,translate it and get your info.It's very informative.Whoever asked about the law I am currently looking for it.When and if I find it I will post it here.
Good. I frequently debate on a law enforcement/legal professional forum here in the united states, and posting the law (Or 'quoting the code' as we call it) is the first thing we do in any argument where 'against the law' is a factor. It's the only way to start an argument with any validity where law is concerned.


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#112 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:34        
     
August 2010.For ten days two men roam undisturbed in lemnos recording in video cameras or digital photographs every inch of the island,including military installations and all access roads to them.Nobody detects them!August 2011...The same two men come back to add in their material everything they had left the last time.And now,they complete undisturbed their task!September 2012...In the third and last vist,they get arrested for espionage.In their state of art video and digital cameras there is everything that is needed for a foreign country to know in order to capture the island <<brige>> to mainland greece!
Espionage case?That's how the greek authorities face it,since the arrested men did not have a photoshoot permission.But even if they had one,they wouldn't have the permission to take photographs of military installations.So the accusation stands.

That's an interesting part too.

This post was edited by rafael52 (2012-09-13 19:41, ago)


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#113 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:41        
     
# Tony Grunt : Be thankful that you can't read it, sensationalistic opinion crap.

With gems like:
[QUOTE]
-.... the experts had Google Earth for daily "partner", studying maps, choosing carefully the points to be photographed or videotaped and recording the daily road routes, without explaining whether their interest was directed to the movements of military vehicles or to ... bus routes! Many details about a computer game, isn't it?

Or

-Quoting Ivan Buchta: "Our effort is directly related to the requirements(?) of our military customers(?) needing display 1:1 (life-size) of the operative field!".
Who are these "military customers" and why do they have "requirements" from a game production company, does not explain the Czech director. However, if you consider that «Bohemia Interactive» has available to them every detail about weapons, missiles, helicopters and everything else in the latest technology of NATO, you easily can conclude that they were provided with rich material.
Did they get all of this for nothing? Or is the gathered optical intel expected as quid pro quo, and if so, will all NATO countries have access to the info, including those who we don't want ...?

The article has no new info.
The only info that could be relevant is the names of 2 BIS employees but this has nowhere been confirmed.
For all we know, he mentioned the names of the people from the previous trips.
Sounds like typical Greek xenophobia. I won't bother reading it.[/quote]

This post was edited by TheCapulet (2012-09-13 19:53, ago)


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#114 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:41        
     
So in the end it's a sensationalistic article wich show the arrested in a extremly bad light. Also it is very nice how the article is not stating which country would be able to invade Greece, but given the location of the island and that it is "the bridge" to invade greece they are clearly pointing at Turkey. That's a lot of paranoia in just one article.


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#115 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:52        
     
# rafael52 : Something about the quoted code that you edited out.
Googlefu has failed me. Found nothing at all related to "Greece article 143 military common law". Mind quoting and translating for us? I only took one semester of greek, and none of it stuck. So I doubt finding it would have done me much good anyways. :P


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#116 Posted at 2012-09-13 19:55        
     
# rafael52 : August 2010.For ten days two men roam undisturbed in lemnos recording in video cameras or digital photographs every inch of the island,including military installations and all access roads to them.Nobody detects them!August 2011...The same two men come back to add in their material everything they had left the last time.And now,they complete undisturbed their task!September 2012...In the third and last vist,they get arrested for espionage.In their state of art video and digital cameras there is everything that is needed for a foreign country to know in order to capture the island <<brige>> to mainland greece!
Espionage case?That's how the greek authorities face it,since the arrested men did not have a photoshoot permission.But even if they had one,they wouldn't have the permission to take photographs of military installations.So the accusation stands.

That's an interesting part too.
Interesting for whom?
It's no secret that they have visited Greece before and nobody knows what they photographed.
And you are not automatically a spy if you photograph military installations as you are not automatically a murderer if you kill someone with a car.


# TheCapulet : Sounds like typical Greek xenophobia. I won't bother reading it.
There is no typical Greek xenophobia, it's a typical sensasiolistic piece trying to gather web hits.
I am sure every country has similar news media. FOX News?


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#117 Posted at 2012-09-13 20:15        
     
# Tony Grunt : Interesting for whom?
It's no secret that they have visited Greece before and nobody knows what they photographed.
And you are not automatically a spy if you photograph military installations as you are not automatically a murderer if you kill someone with a car.



There is no typical Greek xenophobia, it's a typical sensasiolistic piece trying to gather web hits.
I am sure every country has similar news media. FOX News?
You're wrong.The authorities know what they photographed.They took photos of almost everything on the island.That's what made the authorities suspicious.And I don't think that everybody has to know about bohemia interactive and arma 3.If they had informed the authorities I don't think they'd have any trouble now.


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#118 Posted at 2012-09-13 20:31        
     
# rafael52 : You're wrong.The authorities know what they photographed.They took photos of almost everything on the island.That's what made the authorities suspicious.And I don't think that everybody has to know about bohemia interactive and arma 3.If they had informed the authorities I don't think they'd have any trouble now.
Of course someone knows, I am pretty sure the BIS employees know too, so must their lawyer. I meant the general public doesn't know what they photographed and the only official response I could find is:
In particular, as a result of the police investigation, the 08/09/2012, the aforementioned foreigners were recorded using digital media, audiovisual material from military installations in the region of Lemnos.
which is very vague on what exactly they photographed.


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#119 Posted at 2012-09-13 20:37        
     
Rafael52:
Sure they know what the arrested men have photographed when they confiscated their cameras. But an other thing is what the government claim that they photographed. And taking photos of the whole island (pictures of the publicly accesable areas) is now illegal? Or why are they now concerned that there is the whole island on the pictures?

Or you claim that they were suspicious because they were taking photos of the island, so the local police was just waiting for some reason to arrest them? I dont exactly understand the part about making the authorities suspicious.


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#120 Posted at 2012-09-13 20:54        
     
OK I expected already that this article is anything but unbiased, unprejudiced and fair.

But whoever wrote that article should maybe start using common sense. If two Czech developers can roam around the island for two years and taking photos of the whole island, including roads to bases (wtf) then what true Turkish spies could have done in that time - if they don't have all information they need/want to know long time? That he should asked instead bitching about the fact that the two guys were filming roads to bases...

Thanks for the translation of course, but that's really nothing new actually and pure sensationalism. News article for the simple minded. :)





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