Forum Jump :

Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#151 Posted at 2012-09-14 17:04        
     
Well with or witout law - the questions are still:

1) Are their 'no photography' signs at the perimeter fence?
2) Are these signs in Greek language only or have a 'no photos' pictogram at least?
3) Did the 2 guys seen these signs from the position they have taken the photos?

The first 2 can only be answered if someone grabs a camera and goes there... :-D


Author Message


Posts: 20682
Rank:


Level: Super Admin

Country: nl
Location: The Netherlands
Occupation:
Age: 44
In-game name: Foxhound

 
#152 Posted at 2012-09-14 17:10        
     
Anyone has recommendations how we should set up a petition?

Please do not set it up yet!
But leave your ideas what would work best for those guys and to give it the best exposure. Once we work out a good way i will sent it out for review and come back wether its ok'ed or not.


Advertisement


Author Message


Posts: 6
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: no
Location: Right here
Occupation:
Age: 33
In-game name:

 
#153 Posted at 2012-09-14 17:29        
     
Then I suppose the earlier recommendation of refraining ourselves from doing such actions are hereby lifted by Marek?

I'm asking as I do not wish to go against BI's wishes for the time being. The current information we have is old, if not outdated.

This post was edited by Colossus (2012-09-14 17:39, ago)


Author Message


Posts: 128
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Occupation: Prior Service Vet/Security
Age:
In-game name: GenPatton43

 
#154 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:05        
     
# Colossus : Then I suppose the earlier recommendation of refraining ourselves from doing such actions are hereby lifted by Marek?

I'm asking as I do not wish to go against BI's wishes for the time being. The current information we have is old, if not outdated.

As I have come to understand it, any ideas, plans, campaigns should be put on hold for the time being so as to not aggravate the situation any more than it already is. We wait to too hear from BIS. For anyone who cares to know why I am saying this, my reply is that when news of this first broke, I contacted some people I know here in the US who are in a position to shed some light or news on the matter, however, I did it unilaterally, without BIS consent. I don't think anything negative is going to come as a result of it, however, I admit that in this case, emotions, as opposed to rationale thinking, took precedence at a time when that sort of thing is not needed.
However, if I am reading Foxhounds post correctly, there doesn't appear to be any issue as far as discussing ways that the fan base could help or make its voice known.

Basically, if you've got an idea, such as ones made earlier regarding the contact of Greek consulates/embassies, feel free to make them know and discuss it. Just don't take any action until we learn more or get word from BIS themselves.

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-14 18:11, ago)


Author Message


Posts: 92
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: fr
Location:
Occupation:
Age:
In-game name:

 
#155 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:07        
     
What i gather from what Fox said is that recommendation is not lifted at all, but we can start thinking about what we could do. After what we could act if BI's okay with it.

Edit: Yeah well, what GenPatton said.


Author Message


Posts: 128
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Occupation: Prior Service Vet/Security
Age:
In-game name: GenPatton43

 
#156 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:10        
     
[FR:
Black Mamba]Edit: Yeah well, what GenPatton said.

LOL, sorry man, I tend to have impeccable timing every now & than.


Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#157 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:19        
     
Actually I wouldn't even discuss any plans here (or anywhere in the public now)

Why? Because the Greeks (I mean authorities) surely can use the internet as well. And chances are good they read this as well, or have spies sitting here. No need to prepare them for anything that may come. ;-)

But yes, as Marek suggested it's better to do nothing right now which could make things more worse than they already are.


Author Message


Posts: 20682
Rank:


Level: Super Admin

Country: nl
Location: The Netherlands
Occupation:
Age: 44
In-game name: Foxhound

 
#158 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:19        
     
I was aksed what kind of petition we have in mind and how we would set it up. If I communicate this with BI they can review it and allow it or not. The petition ban was not lifted, yet they are interested to see what we want to do here.

So, this means nobody should start anything yet, but you guys can post how we could do it.
I will sent it to BI and they will review it.

So.......post your ideas!

For example:
To whom is the petition aimed? The police? Justice departement? The president.
Or is it a "general" petition?


Author Message


Posts: 6
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: no
Location: Right here
Occupation:
Age: 33
In-game name:

 
#159 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:28        
     
In that case I'd be happy to participate. Thanks for the clarification.


Author Message


Posts: 63
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Brooklyn
Occupation: Design & Technology
Age: 34
In-game name: Alex

 
#160 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:43        
     
I would sign a petition... I bet front-paging it once it does come together, provided BI lends their support, would probably help get quite a few signatures. But in the end, one must wonder what effect, if any, a petition would have-- in the end, it seems up to the Greek authorities one way or the other.

Why they would still be in jail for what was certainly a misunderstanding and a grave misinterpretation of the intentions of these two devs is beyond me. I understand that spying is a serious crime in any country, but this seems pretty heavy-handed.


Author Message


Posts: 128
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Occupation: Prior Service Vet/Security
Age:
In-game name: GenPatton43

 
#161 Posted at 2012-09-14 18:44        
     
Foxhound:
For example:
To whom is the petition aimed? The police? Justice departement? The president.
Or is it a "general" petition?

IMHO, it should start with the policy makers themselves, so either the Governor of the island, whatever his/her title might be, or straight to the top of the Greek Government itself. I don't believe that any other party, i.e. the military or police would give so much as a straight answer.

Added 7 minutes later:

Headup:
But in the end, one must wonder what effect, if any, a petition would have
I can tell you from experience that most online petitions generally have little effect other than to show solidarity. Primarily because they are easily manipulated. I'm sure any American who is a sports fan could agree because for most of the major sports in the country, fans are allowed to cast their own "votes" for what players they'd like to see most on an "All Star" team. So, 20 people, sitting behind a PC for 18hrs, could, just by themselves, cast a couple of thousand votes.
That same sort of thing applies to petitions as well. However, if there is a site that is able to control that sort of thing, than they'd be the first place to look.

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-14 18:53, ago)


Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#162 Posted at 2012-09-14 19:04        
     
# Foxhound : To whom is the petition aimed? The police? Justice departement? The president.
Or is it a "general" petition?

Police is useless, they just follow orders.

Justice department, might not be impressed either but from all options the one I think fits best.

I think the most effective way would be petitions and polite emails/letters sent to the local embassy. Give them something to do, esp. if they are written letters which they can't just trash without reading them.

A link to an online petition might impress them for a few minutes and then they forget about it.

It also wouldn't hurt if you tell them in letters/mails that you will avoid Greece because you're scared now of taking the "wrong photos". Greece after all relies a lot on Tourism. ;)

Another idea, not really impressive maybe but:
Small banners, maybe the size of mine, in which we demand the 2 guys are set free.

This post was edited by W0lle (2012-09-14 19:23, ago)


Author Message

h-  



Posts: 11
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: fi
Location:
Occupation:
Age:
In-game name:

 
#163 Posted at 2012-09-14 19:49        
     
I don't think the regulations for these kinds of things have kept up with the technical advances like the interwebs...

If a petition would be held, once finished, it would be given to the family/families of the arrested and they would then go and deliver the stuff to the proper authorities via their embassy. I seriously doubt letters/e-mails form people outside the Czech would hold any legal merit (remember that legal preceedings in countries outside the US do not appear like they would in TV-shows, most countries don't even have a jury system so any 'appealing to the jury' things won't work).
And I believe the family/families should actually organize this petition themselves for it to be legit. I seriously doubt any legal entity would regocnise Facbeook/forum petitions as anything but a nuisance.

In this case the part of the family/families could be BIS also, so what I would suggest is to contact BIS (in behalf of the whole community, you could actually rally up all possible community sites/entities as a whole) and ask if they would ask their lawyers whether this kind of peition would help, and if it would how should it be organized.
So any petition if held should be organized so that the whole community will appear as one single entity. And if this is done please do not do it via Facebook or something like that because there are people who do not not belong to such things ;)


Although this may appear quite foolish and silly for us the two guys are in serious shit right now and what I would not want to see is them going down to hell because some rediculous thing some internet community did.

OFPEC - The Editing Center | FWW2 - Finland At War 1939-45
'Beware of the sharp edged weapon called human being..'
Chuck Norris can divide by zero.

Author Message


Posts: 19
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: 00
Location:
Occupation:
Age:
In-game name:

 
#164 Posted at 2012-09-14 19:55        
     
You are going to sent an e-petition/mails to people that usually get petitioned in Greece in the form of massive strikes(closing roads-hospitals-airports-ports,...), stopping fuel-electric distribution, demonstrations around their offices (with arrests, injuries, deaths, property damage), which most of the time doesn't change their minds.
To release accused foreign people as spies without a trial?
I am sure the secretary or consultant that reads it will surely classify it as priority.

Also next week, judges/advocates are on strike country wide and some judges will be on strike for the next 20 days.
All planned trials will have to be rescheduled, maybe even a year after. And I expect their demands will be ignored as usual. And you want to sent them an e-petition?


# W0lle : It also wouldn't hurt if you tell them in letters/mails that you will avoid Greece because you're scared now of taking the "wrong photos". Greece after all relies a lot on Tourism. ;)
Translation: "I don't want to come to Greece because I like breaking its laws regarding National Security and you want to jail me. Also I own you with my tourist money."


Author Message


Posts: 128
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Occupation: Prior Service Vet/Security
Age:
In-game name: GenPatton43

 
#165 Posted at 2012-09-14 19:58        
     
# h- : I don't think the regulations for these kinds of things have kept up with the technical advances like the interwebs...

If a petition would be held, once finished, it would be given to the family/families of the arrested and they would then go and deliver the stuff to the proper authorities via their embassy. I seriously doubt letters/e-mails form people outside the Czech would hold any legal merit (remember that legal preceedings in countries outside the US do not appear like they would in TV-shows, most countries don't even have a jury system so any 'appealing to the jury' things won't work).
And I believe the family/families should actually organize this petition themselves for it to be legit. I seriously doubt any legal entity would regocnise Facbeook/forum petitions as anything but a nuisance.

In this case the part of the family/families could be BIS also, so what I would suggest is to contact BIS (in behalf of the whole community, you could actually rally up all possible community sites/entities as a whole) and ask if they would ask their lawyers whether this kind of peition would help, and if it would how should it be organized.
So any peition if held should be organized so that the whole community will appear aas one single entity. And if this is done please do not do it via Facebook or something like that because there are people who do not not belong to such things ;)


Although this may appear quite foolish and silly for us the two guys are in serious shit right now and what I would not want to see is them going down to hell because some rediculous thing some internet community did.

Duly noted, however, considering that governments of late have in part been overthrown by groups that organized via Social Network sites also, its fair to say that there is also power in numbers as well.





This topic is locked, new posts are not allowed.