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#196 Posted at 2012-09-15 00:25        
     
Tony Grunt: I will try do translate it


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#197 Posted at 2012-09-15 00:30        
     
Many thanks.


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#198 Posted at 2012-09-15 00:48        
     
# [FR] Black Mamba : No need to go for other bases, actually. Google maps let you see several jet fighters on the Lemnos Base.
Resolution's bad but you can clearly see F-4s and A-7s there. Seeing, with Google earth, how flat the area is, you can probably see them from the civil airport terminal.

Hell, five minutes on google, you have photos from almost every angle of the base, and even some guys that filmed it from the air.

And its not like Google Earth can't be hacked either to get real time images.


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#199 Posted at 2012-09-15 00:58        
     
translation of this article:
http://games.tiscali.cz/tema/na-vyvojare-army-3-byla-v-recku-uvalena-vazba-60691

After Tuesday's news from the greek island of Limnos, where two Czech developers from Bohemia Interactive were arrested for suspicion of espionage, we were waiting, how the situation would develop further. There were still the hope that the greek procurator would declare the accusation as unjustified and that both czech would be released until the end of the week. This did not prove to be true - according to the AFP agency, the procurator have decided already in Thursday, that both developer should be put into custody.
The date of the court is still uncertain. The advocate still have five day to appeal the acusation. But even if this would be succesful, it would not be the end of the case. Because the prosecutors would have the same possibility. Acording to AFP, this issue can take up to 9 - 18 month, wich the accused would spend in jail.

Parallely, it was revealed, that the boys from BI were realy on Limnos on a holiday, even with a travel agency. This confirmed the statement of Bohemia Interactive CEO Marek Španel, wich he sent to media already on Tuesday. The families of both men sent their statement via CTK: "They both refuse the absurb accusation. We consider the accusation of our relatives to be a missunderstating wich will soon explain. They wanted to visit the environement, wich they knew from the computer game, in wich developement they are involved for two years."

Trought the families, the media also received message from the arrested men: "The conditions are hard, but the people we encouter threat us nicely and corectly. We consider this to be nonsense missunderstating, that will certainly be soonly explained"

That it can't be that easy show one historic example wich is already mentioned in the cited message from AFP. Ten years ago a group of British and Dutch citizens were accused of the same crime after they were watcing planes with binoculars. They were held in greece for a month and even sentenced for three years in prison. In the end, they were released after an appeal.

(Sorry for the mistakes in the translation, this is the first time I am translating such kind of text and I am quite nervous. I hope, that it is a least readable.)

This post was edited by Derk Yall (2012-09-15 01:17, ago)


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#200 Posted at 2012-09-15 01:00        
     
@all
Please refrain from posting images + links to images implying this could be spying as well. This is a sensetive matter so lets not give any food for certain people to come and bother me cause you redicule them!

I know anyone can find pics on the net, anyone can find games for free as well on the net. Just cause it is there does not mean it is good to post.
Thanks!



# h- : I had a very lenghty post written prior to reading this but somehow this gives me the impression Armaholic is afraid to be the backbone to a petition as in "it wasn't us, we ´just provided the backend". If I'm wrong, kick me in the nuts.. :P

I wont kick you in the nuts but you seem to completely interpreted my post wrong.
I am here to support anyone and will do anything I can, I just hope someone else steps up.........I think I can say I am already doing more than enough for this community. Why should I do this as well while all of you play games and debate and I am moderating, posting news, uploading files, searching for news and work on a new website? Kick me in my nuts, but I think I am doing enough :-P

Anyway, how I read what Fox says BIS said is that BIS is looking for a clean and simple tecnical advice, as in how in a matter of fact any petition would be held.

No, BI was very thankfull we would consider such and although at first they said no I recieved a mail today asking me how we thought to do such a thing, if done right they would no longer oppose such.


I find it rather odd that Armaholic, or Fox wouldn't be personally interested.

Who says I am not interest? I am just not interested to be the one stepping up and seek contact with other community websites. I have no wish to further delve into that.


I myself have been here (in the community) pretty much since the beginning (and yes, to some of you "noobs" this is way waayy way before Armaholic even existed :P ) and I find myself very involved even though BIS doesn't have an idea.
I'm not talking in behalf of OFPEC, but in my opinnion we as a community should rise up as one and help these guys, but if BIS really don't know what a community petition could do they're in trouble.. :(

Feel free to step up!


But, speaking of standing up. I already recieved a message from someone who has been busy and seems to have pretty much set up things already together with a BI staff member so I will cooperate with that.


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#201 Posted at 2012-09-15 01:27        
     
# Derk Yall : translation of this article:
http://games.tiscali.cz/tema/na-vyvojare-army-3-byla-v-recku-uvalena-vazba-60691



(Sorry for the mistakes in the translation, this is the first time I am translating such kind of text and I am quite nervous. I hope, that it is a least readable.)
Ya did fine man, thank you.

Added 3 minutes later:

# GenPatton43 : Sorry, still learning this messageboard but here is the photo I just took, Am I now a spy?
Lets not post pics of any material in this matter please!

Added 8 minutes later:

No need for me to keep posting pics, especially ones that might have broken a forum rule , which I will glady remove if so requested Foxhound. But, Found more aircraft at Araxos Airport. Not sure of the type, Harriers maybe?

EDIT- A-7 Corsairs. Not harriers.
No problem, point was made and I was going to remove it before tonight(for me) ended.

Added 26 minutes later:

As for the petition, if people still want to do it than I suggest we find a reputable site that offers them. Someone I had posted a link on one of the first pages of a group who not only offered online petitions, but specialized in "Grassroot" campaigns as well. Contacting them and asking for any feedback or further thoughts would be a start.
2) Once that's established, we just need to reach out to the other fan sites and ask them to donate a spot on their homepage so their members, who may not come here often, can learn about the issue and then vote if they so desired.
2) After that, if we wanted, reaching out to PC Gaming publications and both making them aware of the news and campaign and see if they'd donate a space on their homepage for gamers in general to learn & vote.
4) After that, it just becomes a matter of how far would we want to go as far as contacting other media sources, which considering the situation going on about the "film" & I use that term loosely, that's caused not only controversy, but peoples lives in general, far more hardship, receiving or expecting to get help from them more than likely would not happen, nor should it.

Added 11 minutes later:

TyXO posted this link http://www.avaaz.org/en/
the first day. I'll send them an email, if tha'ts OK and see what they say.

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-15 02:12, ago)


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#202 Posted at 2012-09-15 02:12        
     
Please refrain from posting images + links to images implying this could be spying as well. This is a sensetive matter so lets not give any food for certain people to come and bother me cause you redicule them!
Sorry Fox, won't happen again. :-)

Thanks Derk Yall, much better than what Google did with the text. :-D

This did not prove to be true - according to the AFP agency, the procurator have decided already in Thursday, that both developer should be put into custody.
This makes me think even more that someone wants to state an example here on these 2 guys. Let's remember that the mayor of this Island is complaining since years about Lemnos being used in A2. I envy him though, obviously has no other big problems than that.

I could say something else what I think about that procurator, but I keep it at myself. At least for now.


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#203 Posted at 2012-09-15 03:19        
     
Email inquiring about setting up an online petition sent to http://www.avaaz.org/en/about.php
We'll see where things go from there.


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#204 Posted at 2012-09-15 07:54        
     
Well, you're all right about google maps etc.It's a matter of the goverment of not demanding from google to "hide" all the bases etc.About the petition you should consider the possibility of the authorities(or to whoever it is adressed) ignoring it.I'm saying this because here they ignore thousands of people protesting in athens,think about a petition through the internet.


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#205 Posted at 2012-09-15 08:40        
     
# rafael52 : Well, you're all right about google maps etc.It's a matter of the goverment of not demanding from google to "hide" all the bases etc.
While we're at it, lets demand that they just remove any trace of them from google, the internet, and our memories all together? Let's just put an outright halt on the freedom of information in the name of national security.


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#206 Posted at 2012-09-15 09:18        
     
# h- : I don't think the regulations for these kinds of things have kept up with the technical advances like the interwebs...

If a petition would be held, once finished, it would be given to the family/families of the arrested and they would then go and deliver the stuff to the proper authorities via their embassy. I seriously doubt letters/e-mails form people outside the Czech would hold any legal merit (remember that legal preceedings in countries outside the US do not appear like they would in TV-shows, most countries don't even have a jury system so any 'appealing to the jury' things won't work).
And I believe the family/families should actually organize this petition themselves for it to be legit. I seriously doubt any legal entity would regocnise Facbeook/forum petitions as anything but a nuisance.

In this case the part of the family/families could be BIS also, so what I would suggest is to contact BIS (in behalf of the whole community, you could actually rally up all possible community sites/entities as a whole) and ask if they would ask their lawyers whether this kind of peition would help, and if it would how should it be organized.
So any petition if held should be organized so that the whole community will appear as one single entity. And if this is done please do not do it via Facebook or something like that because there are people who do not not belong to such things ;)


Although this may appear quite foolish and silly for us the two guys are in serious shit right now and what I would not want to see is them going down to hell because some rediculous thing some internet community did.

I think h- is right on who must deliver such kind of petition. Only relatives and BIS can do that. They could also deliver a petition on behalf of the community, but only they should deliver it, it's the most logical thing to do.
Now instead of concentrating too much on the problem we should concentrate on how to transform a solution into action.
Sadly . . . common sense are meaningless words, most probably have always been.
Authorities all over the world justify actions to be taken in the name of "National Security". You can't defeat that. I can't explain it in detail because it would derail this thread into political issues and I follow Foxhounds advice in this regards. BIS needs to formulate a petition and we as a community should sign it, that's actually the only thing we can do IMHO. Please post your ideas for a possible solution instead of discussing the problem which leads to nothing that could help those two. No pun intended.
I hope this is going to end pretty soon.

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#207 Posted at 2012-09-15 10:36        
     
I didn't want to post again the same things but couldn't resist...

# W0lle : It's not silly, it's retarted. Especially in this days where Greece is damn close to turn into a failed state.

# W0lle : It also wouldn't hurt if you tell them in letters/mails that you will avoid Greece because you're scared now of taking the "wrong photos". Greece after all relies a lot on Tourism. ;)

I don't know how things work in Germany but here we won't be "bribed".If you don't want to come to Greece don't come,we surely won't have a problem.Also keep in mind tourism is not a favour you are making to us.Tourism is a service.You come enjoy the service and pay for it.So please restrain in near future to use tourism as threatening tool.I've read many times in this thread that Greece is full of xenphobia,but the only thing is I see that you think of us like a 3rd World country that will say "Yes" to everything just because you come here as a tourist.People work while you are a tourist.

# W0lle : Jesus after reading through all these other reports... that is not only stupid, that is retarded!
But now I understand finally why all the people in Greece living from Tourists complain about less and less people are coming. That has nothing to do with the economical crisis - in Greece you can get in jail for even the smallest things.
Seriously I wouldn't live in such a restrictive country. That's damn close to a police state already. :(
Exactly that came to my mind before. Whatever we would do, it must be approved by BI and even better by one of their lawyers.

Again the same argument.Look if you really want to see a country close to a police state maybe you can look the country where you come from,if we do have something here in plurality that is freedom.In fact a lot of people here believe that there's too much freedom.Don't get me started on how things are in your country,fines for littering etc...Oh I have another great idea!All the southern European countries will stop buying from German supermakers,will also stop buying from German car manufacters,no more German machinery imports.Hello China!Let's see how happy you'll be then

# TheCapulet : While we're at it, lets demand that they just remove any trace of them from google, the internet, and our memories all together? Let's just put an outright halt on the freedom of information in the name of national security.

You're coming from the US and criticize us about freedom of information and national security...Oh pls....come on... :-P

I really can't understand why a mod hasn't done anything here yet.Shall we start joking and mocking each others country?


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#208 Posted at 2012-09-15 11:32        
     
We are, for the most part, powerless.

OK, it could be stated that there were not enough warnings...but again I refer to the Plane-Spotters of 2002.
This was a well publicised and documented case of some innocent plane enthusiasts being accused of spying.
For BIS not to have know this could happen, unfortunately, the problem.
They are essentially going to have to prove they did not know they could be subject to prosecution, and as we all know, ignorance is rarely an acceptable defence.

So if you really want to know what is probably awaiting these guys...

BBC: OnThisDay

# news.bbc.co.uk:
In mid-December the 12 British plane-spotters - plus two from Holland - were freed on �9,000 bail before a trial the following year.
In April 2002 they returned to face trial on lesser charges and were confident of being cleared.
Instead eight were found guilty of espionage and sentenced to three years in jail.
The other six were convicted of aiding and abetting and received a one-year suspended sentence.
Those who received prison sentences were allowed to leave Greece while their appeals were being heard.
In November 2002 13 of the plane-spotters returned to Greece and succeeded in overturning thier convictions.

P.S
Greece has not only a right but an obligation to it's people when it comes to homeland security.
To paraphrse Voltaire...
I may not agree on how [they do it], but I defend to the death thier right to do it.

....that's all folks....!

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#209 Posted at 2012-09-15 12:45        
     
# TheCapulet : While we're at it, lets demand that they just remove any trace of them from google, the internet, and our memories all together? Let's just put an outright halt on the freedom of information in the name of national security.

http://nbclatino.com/2012/09/05/caught-on-cam-deaf-couple-gets-arrested/ I won't argue anymore with you since you arrest people for absolutely no reason.At least our cops told them why they were arrested.


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#210 Posted at 2012-09-15 13:16        
     
# rafael52 : Well, you're all right about google maps etc.It's a matter of the goverment of not demanding from google to "hide" all the bases etc.About the petition you should consider the possibility of the authorities(or to whoever it is adressed) ignoring it.I'm saying this because here they ignore thousands of people protesting in athens,think about a petition through the internet.
Well, of course I think most can understand this. I mean look, lets be realistic, if anyone has any illusions of coming up with some sort of "Magic Bullet" that's going to cause the Greek Government to say, "OH NO! We f***ed up, they are free to go" than they're not living in a reality world themselves.
However, if the defense attorney has something to that he can turn around and present to the judge that shows a high level of support, maybe it does something, maybe it doesn't.





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