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#226 Posted at 2012-09-17 14:17        
     
mihor:
One question: how the hell would you know if they weren't really spies

Innocent until proven guilty.


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This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-17 15:32, ago)


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#227 Posted at 2012-09-17 14:41        
     
# Grub : God, their not bloody spies...

And your evidence being... what? Your liking of the guys' work doesn't automatically make them innocent. Anyone can be a spy.

# GenPatton43 : Innocent until proven guilty.

First of all, I'm not accusing them of being spies. But neither am I claiming their innocence. I'm sure they were arrested for a reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out they actually were spying.



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This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-17 15:33, ago)


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#228 Posted at 2012-09-17 15:59        
     
Maybe read the press statement made this morning:

They took photographs and videos in public areas, as countless tourists arriving to enjoy the beauty and hospitality of Greece may well do. These included a short video as they drove through the main road passing around the international airport, where in one short part of the video off in the distance some hangars and other buildings of the complex can be seen.

So it's exactly as I expected it: Their spy work was what every tourist does in and around an airport.
And as I also said before, every tourist visiting Greece can get the same 'hospitality' when he's taking photos there!

I'm sure they were arrested for a reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out they actually were spying.
And I'm slowly beginning more and more to consider that this is not a coincidence, or just a bad misunderstanding.

Ivan is well known, pictures and videos of him can be found everywhere. What if he was put on some secret 'wanted list' and they were observed since the authorities knew about their arrival?
To me that would make sense: Mayor of Lemnos bitching since years about his 'peaceful' island being used in a war game. A state attorney who still insists on espionage even though only harmless pictures / videos were taken. From whom that attorney gets his orders? Does he and the mayor are friends?.
I'm not really a fan of conspiracy theories but this story stinks. Really stinks.

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This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-18 09:03, ago)


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#229 Posted at 2012-09-17 16:17        
     
" . . . . " These dots explain better then any words my point of view of the situation.

They already called me "racist" , "kid" and I already got a +1 warning.. that mean I already talked enough.

First I would say sorry to the greek community for what I sed, then I would say sorry to the other people as well for my..ehm...language.

In any case, how can we help them?

I suggest to keep the post about the petition in home page up all days.

This post was edited by Babylonjoke (2012-09-17 16:32, ago)


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#230 Posted at 2012-09-17 17:44        
     
They called me racist too already on the first page. That's okay, shows that some people don't even know what racism means.

But: Attacking the Greek members here doesn't help anything, after all we share the same interests, we play the same games maybe even online together. They may have another opinion about this but none of them have arrested the guys nor are responsible for what happened.

You can do a lot already: Sign the petition, add the banner to your signature, spread the word on social media, tell your friends about it.

And yes, I also think it would be a good idea to keep the press release on top of the news for some days. :-)


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#231 Posted at 2012-09-17 19:10        
     
I hope the boys get released soon, I do understand why they have been arrested. The laws of many countries are not unlike Greece when it comes to military installations.

A demilitarized zone is more or less as CIA. Once CIA always CIA.

Anyone on a military island should think twice before using a camera. That goes for any country I know up to date.

It is regretful however that these two been charged for espionage as that was clearly not their intent with their visit to the Island.

They are in a twilight zone between everything and it is an unfortunate development.

My thought goes to their families and friends, and I hope reason will get the boys home in one peace without having to rot in a prison for 20 years.


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#232 Posted at 2012-09-17 19:34        
     
What a strange and Bizarre situation it is :o

I hope the whole thing can be cleared up soon whatever that is and justice prevail whatever side that sways.
Seems ridiculous why they cant be deported and given there life back until such time the photos and video have been scrutinised and evidence presented.

I have to say tho i find incredulous why two employees go there for holidays ,when its common knowledge the whole Island is up in arms about there countryside being portrayed in a war simulator (Arma 111), i think it would be my last choice :o,however like many have said Ivan is Passionate about such things and his actions can be explained beyond Espionage just by reading his interviews etc.

Hope the families suffer not many days more without there loved ones and the Oldest democracy proves its not just named that because of its age.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?40226-ECL's-record-breaking-attempt-players-on-one-serve&p=619994&viewfull=1#post619994

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#233 Posted at 2012-09-17 19:46        
     
# W0lle :But: Attacking the Greek members ...

Well, I havn't attacked no one, I was attacking the law, not the greeks people, just sed it in a wrong way :)

What about a post on dayz frontpage and forum aswell? hopefully they will join this "battle".

That's the minimum.


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#234 Posted at 2012-09-17 19:54        
     
As I am advised from the internet that Greece din't allow Bohemia Interactive to take pictures of the base, they had actually warned them, especially its author. I think that they had to stop doing that and choose other place. That's all I know. Sorry for my bad english.


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#235 Posted at 2012-09-17 20:05        
     
They have not taken pictures of any base! And the video talked about in the Greek press is actually a video taken in a driving car showing landscape and airport and eventually some hangars in the distance. Yes surely some big help for anyone invading the island...

They just did what millions of tourists do when visiting your country as guests. Not more and not less.

"I think that they had to stop doing that and choose other place."
Yes sure, but it's not that easy as you may think. We talk here about a commercial game which costs money to develop and where you don't just drop something and start over again just because some paranoid and fanatic mayor is complaining.


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#236 Posted at 2012-09-17 20:57        
     
# W0lle : They have not taken pictures of any base!

Do you have proofs?Because here it is said that their cameras were full of pics form military sites.Since you have no proofs,I prefer to believe what official sources claim.I am talking about the official police announcement.


"I think that they had to stop doing that and choose other place."
Yes sure, but it's not that easy as you may think. We talk here about a commercial game which costs money to develop and where you don't just drop something and start over again just because some paranoid and fanatic mayor is complaining.

So what if it has costed millions?If the material can't be obtained in a legal way then it can't be used no matter what.And lastly it's not the mayor's decision,it's about the law,when are you going to understand that?Whatever the mayor believes he wasn't the one to arrest them.

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I prefer what they said "“The conditions are tough, but the people we meet treat us fairly and correctly. It is all a completely absurd misunderstanding that will certainly be quickly explained. We mainly think of you, our families; you have to stay calm and not to worry about us. We hope we will meet soon.”
I really hope the misunderstanding ends soon,and I'm glad they treat you nicely,after all we are hospitable nation no matter what some people here will continue to say...

This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-18 09:03, ago)


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#237 Posted at 2012-09-17 21:14        
     
# Hakk : Do you have proofs?Because here it is said that their cameras were full of pics form military sites.Since you have no proofs,I prefer to believe what official sources claim.

Do you have also proof about what kinda of photos they taked? I don't think so, It's better if we all shut up about that.



# Hakk :Common tourists go to beaches,monuments,sightseeing,not near military bases.

What does it mean, I'm not able to go where I want? No caps!!
There's who prefer go to the beach, who prefer to go into the bunkers, who prefer visit other stuffs, no one can complain that.

# Hakk :So what if it has costed millions?If the material can't be obtained in a legal way then it can't be used no matter what.And lastly it's not the mayor's decision,it's about the law,when are you going to understand that?Whatever the mayor believes he wasn't the one to arrest them.

Allright, but I don't see where is the Illegal way , I don't see it.


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I found all your(and other people who joined there from greece in these days) patriotism so ridicoulous. You are defending a law,not your people,not your land, but a law, which puted 2 guy with a family into a jail, risking 20 years.
Why?

"These included a short video as they drove through the main road passing around the international airport, where in one short part of the video off in the distance some hangars and other buildings of the complex can be seen"

No caps

Wake up buddy. We are just sad and pissed off, that's not racism.

This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-18 09:05, ago)


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#238 Posted at 2012-09-17 21:14        
     
mihor:
First of all, I'm not accusing them of being spies. But neither am I claiming their innocence. I'm sure they were arrested for a reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out they actually were spying.

Nor did I, simply answered your question.

Babylonjoke :
I suggest to keep the post about the petition in home page up all days.

Why not all of the community sites? At least those we can get in touch . Its not like there isn't a ton of them. *JOKINGLY*
W0lle:
You can do a lot already: Sign the petition, add the banner to your signature, spread the word on social media, tell your friends about it.

Wait, so there is a petition up and running? I haven't been here much since Saturday so I'm behind on the news a bit.
Haven't heard back from Aavhaz.com yet so I just sent them a 2nd email just asking for confirmation that they received the first one.

EDIT- Disregard above statement. I found it & signed it. I must say, hats off to everyone, 54 pages of signatures, not too shabby.

Added 8 minutes later:

Deanosbeano:
I have to say tho i find incredulous why two employees go there for holidays ,when its common knowledge the whole Island is up in arms about there countryside being portrayed in a war simulator (Arma 111), i think it would be my last choice :o,however like many have said Ivan is Passionate about such things and his actions can be explained beyond Espionage just by reading his interviews etc.

That could help explain as to why they've been held as long as they have or why they were charged with a serious crime such as espionage. But it doesn't as far ass why they were arrested in the first place. I highly doubt that Greece knew of their intentions to travel there beforehand or knew they were on the island to begin with.
Because if so, then Greece would need a "Banned Software Company Officials" watch list like the terrorist watch list. :-D

Added 4 minutes later:

Hakk:
Common tourists go to beaches,monuments,sightseeing,not near military bases.

They would have had to if they went to the island since the airport is shared by both the military and civilian authorities.

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-17 21:41, ago)


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#239 Posted at 2012-09-17 21:41        
     
Patton:
I highly doubt that Greece knew of their intentions to travel there beforehand or knew they were on the island to begin with.
Because if so, then Greece would need a "Banned Software Company Officials" watch list like the terrorist watch list.

I doubt this was a National incident when it happened , maybe more a Local Incident that blew out of proportion , I`m sure from the Protests about Arma 3 location on this Island they would like some retribution, hopefully this Newspaper column Inches will be enough and all can get back to Virtual Reality ;).

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?40226-ECL's-record-breaking-attempt-players-on-one-serve&p=619994&viewfull=1#post619994

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#240 Posted at 2012-09-17 22:07        
     
*JOKINGLY*
GenPatton43:
I highly doubt that Greece knew of their intentions to travel there beforehand or knew they were on the island to begin with.
Because if so, then Greece would need a "Banned Software Company Officials" watch list like the terrorist watch list. :-D





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