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#256 Posted at 2012-09-18 17:28        
     
# Hakk : My guess is that they were arrested for espionage because the material they found wasn't allowed.I would be arrested for espionage for the same reason,by espionage I think they mean the gathering of prohibited intel.

Espionage:

"Espionage or spying involves a government or individual obtaining information that is considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Espionage is inherently clandestine, as it is taken for granted that it is unwelcome and, in many cases illegal and punishable by law. It is a subset of intelligence gathering—which otherwise may be conducted from public sources and using perfectly legal and ethical means."

Information that is secret or confidential ceases to be so when it is released into the public domain. I.e. accessible to the public, such as being in plane public view. That information would be restricted, which means people could be prevented from transmitting it - but that would not be espionage, it would simply be breaking a regulation. Similar in severity to parking in a handicap space.

Espionage is different from gathering information. Text removed, no politics (please read my previous moderation posts)

Something to think about...

This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-18 17:40, ago)


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#257 Posted at 2012-09-18 20:29        
     
Don't know if this has already been posted but Dean Hall, AKA Rocket, has posted this on his tumblr :

Rocket:
How you can help them
You have the power to help me free my friends. I need you to do four things, and if enough people get behind this. The world has their eye on Greece because of their economic troubles, let them know the world has two of their friends held hostage. These things are very important. Petitions and such are great but not as powerful as personal contact, these steps will get my friends freed:

1. Send a twitter message to the Prime Minister of Greece (@primeministergr) letting him know we want Ivan and Maxel returned to their families immediately. This is probably one of the most public and obvious things you can do to help. Social Media works.

2. Call, write, or visit your nearest Greek Embassy (click the link for a list). Let them know what they have done is wrong, and that you want them released. Be civil, but be honest. We don’t stand for this in the part of the world I come from.

3. Spread the word, let everyone know. Please forward my post on, and these links, to anyone who might be able to help. For more information you can visit my friends website at http://www.helpivanmartin.org/

4. Let the local press on the island know what you think on their facebook page, and their twitter @LesvosNet. Read some of the comments on this article for an idea of what is going on. Let’s end it exactly where it all started in the first place!

http://rocketkiwi.tumblr.com/post/31744919816/my-friends-are-in-prison

Lets not let this event tears apart the community.
Our goal is to set those guys free so lets focus on that and not waste energy debating about laws and whatnot.

This post was edited by BloodnGuts (2012-09-18 21:10, ago)


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#258 Posted at 2012-09-18 20:56        
     
# BloodnGuts : Don't know if this has already been posted but Dean Hall, AKA Rocket, has posted this on his tumblr :



http://rocketkiwi.tumblr.com/post/31744919816/my-friends-are-in-prison

Lets no let this event tears apart the community.
Our goal is to set those guys free so lets focus on that and not waste energy debating about laws and whatnot.

Couldn't agree more, just not so sure that the "Debates" will end. Not too mention that some of these ideas have been presented already and last I heard, BIS hasn't given an OK for such actions to be undertaken.


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#259 Posted at 2012-09-18 21:04        
     
I apparently live 10 miles from a Greek Consulate. I'll bake them cookies and ask them nicely to release our friends.


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#260 Posted at 2012-09-18 21:07        
     
When I returned from holiday and heard about this I was saddened at the prospect of yet more innocent people having their lives disrupted (it's not the 1st time this has occurred) but I was also not surprised as I had warned about this possible outcome when there was a post about the disgruntled mayor last year (can't remember if it was here or on the BIS forums).

I hope those who mocked my warnings about offending Greek sensibilities realise now that I was raising some genuine concerns. I travelled to Greece just after the UK tourists were arrested and experienced the stern warnings from aircrew when we landed at a military airport. On the return trip I also had to grab a camera from a lady attempting to take a picture of a child in front of an anti-aircraft gun at Volos and remind her that we would all face the consequences of her stupidity.

It's nice to see the community rallying round and setting up petitions and twitter campaigns but I would urge you to keep it civil or not do it at all. You might just be adding additional insults. The lawmakers, judges and prosecutors usually don't respond well to that sort of thing and many here seem to think you can solve anything with a computer and the internet. It's done Assange no favours and it will probably not work here either, get a grip on reality before you do more damage.


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#261 Posted at 2012-09-18 21:52        
     
is there any czech that can make a decent translation out of these articles?
google creates quite a strange translation.

Interview with parents : http://www.lidovky.cz/ze-jsou-nasi-synove-spioni-absurdni-rikaji-matky-zadrzenych-cechu-v-recku-15i-/ln_zahranici.asp?c=A120918_172336_ln_zahranici_sk#helpIvanMartin

some reflection of the foreign minister : http://www.lidovky.cz/s-reky-promluvim-slibuje-schwarzenberg-f02-/ln_zahranici.asp?c=A120917_200540_ln_zahranici_ape



oh, and go follow : https://twitter.com/HelpIvanMartin


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#262 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:00        
     
I might translate the interview with the parents tomorrow.

As for the Minister of foreign affairs statement, it doesn't say much. Just that they (ministry) are closely looking into the matter and working on it.


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#263 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:07        
     
I used a different service and this was the best I got.

Article- http://www.lidovky.cz/ze-jsou-nasi-synove-spioni-absurdni-rikaji-matky-zadrzenych-cechu-v-recku-15i-/ln_zahranici.asp?c=A120918_172336_ln_zahranici_sk#helpIvanMartin

It's still in the crying, they call Mother seized Czechs in Greece
conversation 18 September 2012 18 :09
Prague - It was a shock.
of the detention we learned by the media, said in an interview for the server lidovky.cz Mother two seized Czechs in Greece Iveta pezlarová and Hana Buchtová.
Martin pezlar (28 ) and Ivan chick (33 ) are still in custody in the island Lesbos, because according to the Greek police during vacation crossed the prohibition and photograph military objects.
idovky.CZ: your families live in Ústí nad Labem. You're helping each other and, as with the situation offset other next of kin?
Hana Buchtová: survival. Man the sadness shall be forfeited, then he must mobilise, as is, doesn't help anything.
My son Ivan's got a little girl and the other's on the way. We believe, that'll be all right, we're doing all of it.
iveta pezlarová: Martin has a girlfriend and yet it is still childless.
In it's still fighting, at one point she's crying, then, for a moment he collects, then he cries in view of the His washed T-shirt or at the empty place at the table. Instead of the four we are now only three. Are you crying, are you crying, but then you tell me!
The guys in a week will be back and there will be back with us. Otherwise, it's not it's not...

lidovky.CZ: you have the option with the sons you say that? They complain about Greek link?
Hana Buchtová: can we make a phone call to a fixed line, we don't know how, where, when, nothing. But call. They'll say a few things, and the end of it.

iveta pezlarová: always, when he calls, so it's all about it, that

Added 4 minutes later:

http://www.lidovky.cz/s-reky-promluvim-slibuje-schwarzenberg-f02-/ln_zahranici.asp?c=A120917_200540_ln_zahranici_ape

In Bohemia, Czech Republic held in Greece, maybe I will speak, he muses Schwarzenberg
It is recommended that 18 September 2012 7 :15
Prague - Two Czechs imprisonment on the Greek island Limnos could wait intercession by the Czech state.
Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg does not exclude that in the case will ask the Greek counterpart. For more than a week are the two young Czechs Ivan chick and Martin pezlar kept in the Greek prison. In the problems they got, when they had recorded video, on which they have picked military base on the island Limnos.
The Greek Prosecutor's Office pair for filming forbidden object accused of spying.

Read more:

detention Czechs in Greece to the Court can wait. Because of the strike

investigation incident can take a month. The lawyer seized panajotise eleftheriua, while the pair committed just tourist madness.
The object you shot of the car in the car and warning that the in-the-spot may not take the pictures you first notice. He was definitely not the espionage," said eleftheriu ln.

The case it is therefore became interested Czech Foreign Ministry.
"We're on it, I shall be kept informed of it. If necessary, with counterpart


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#264 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:29        
     
yea - saw that. same crappy translation, its about 14 frames from a conviscated video.
but do frames mean sequences? or real frames?


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#265 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:36        
     
# GenPatton43 : For more than a week are the two young Czechs Ivan chick and Martin pezlar kept in the Greek prison.

:-D

Online translators should be banned from the internet.


Why I originally came back, some more alternative support banners for everyone to use:

http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_flag.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_rainbow.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_sky.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_water.jpg

http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_mini.jpg


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#266 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:44        
     
great stuff wolle, will use that. ( along with that mission )

got something on my sleave.. you'll see :)


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#267 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:48        
     
:-)



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#268 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:50        
     
# jerryhopper : yea - saw that. same crappy translation, its about 14 frames from a conviscated video.
but do frames mean sequences? or real frames?
If they were in a car when it was being taken, I'd have to think that its 14frams in one sequence cuz they're vehicle speed would be too fast unless they were doing a loop of some kinda around the facility which I doubt..

Added 2 minutes later:

# W0lle : :-D

Online translators should be banned from the internet.


Why I originally came back, some more alternative support banners for everyone to use:

http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_flag.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_rainbow.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_sky.jpg
http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_water.jpg

http://armaholic.com/wolle/pix/bi_devs_mini.jpg
The only word missing from that sentence would be whhere there being held......Lesbos! :-D :-D


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#269 Posted at 2012-09-18 22:53        
     
How is control panel the account in edit can made this picture? I don't work do weird.


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#270 Posted at 2012-09-18 23:09        
     
Got the image up as my Faceboook banner.

Added 1 hour 5 minutes later:

OK, here's a little bit of US based Press that I was telling some of you about. I'm not sure at the moment if it actually made the TV Program "Attack o the Show", but its a start

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/727819/arma-3-devs-arrested-in-greece-as-alleged-spies/

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-19 00:15, ago)





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