Forum Jump :

Author Message


Posts: 16
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: uk
Location:
Occupation:
Age: 46
In-game name:

 
#286 Posted at 2012-09-20 15:14        
     
Regarding previous warnings, anyone remember this? More recent than my concerns and posted by a Greek citizen who would have better knowledge of the situation:
http://www.neoseeker.com/news
"Cyplon 01/08/2012
:

On the island of Limnos is a military air base. It is illegal to take photographs of this base, yet the ArmA development team are creating a 3D model of the base, most likely based on photos which they took illegally (as well as the satellite photos which aren't illegal).

It's also regrettable that BIS didn't liaise with locals from the beginning and stepped on so many toes. In previous cases of this kind it was possible to appeal to local politicians eg the local Mayor. As he was arrogantly ignored I guess this avenue is no longer open and his outrage is well documented?
People who live on small islands tend to have very close communities and be very protective of their home, it might be best to remember that in future.
It is likely the Greek Military would also have been offended and are well known for their very conservative view of the world, (talk to locals and you will hear some nasty stories from 30/40 years ago). Perhaps from the moment two men travelling alone together stepped off the plane with Czech passports the endeavour was doomed? People going on holiday usually take their families / girlfriends with them don't they?
We all have weekends away with friends etc. but longish holidays alone, it looks obvious that they were working so why lie, it makes it look bad.


Author Message


Posts: 1
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: uk
Location:
Occupation:
Age:
In-game name: Phorce

 
#287 Posted at 2012-09-20 18:11        
     
That's kind of what I was thinking myself reading what information I can glean from the new release. I'd like to add that there is a historical situation between Greece and Turkey that is sometimes an issue in that region. We also have the Syria situation going on relatively nearby. Hopefully the Greek authorities can get to the bottom of this as soon as possible. It also sounds like some apologies might be necessary from Bohemia Interactive.


Advertisement


Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#288 Posted at 2012-09-20 19:34        
     
It's also regrettable that BIS didn't liaise with locals from the beginning and stepped on so many toes. In previous cases of this kind it was possible to appeal to local politicians eg the local Mayor. As he was arrogantly ignored I guess this avenue is no longer open and his outrage is well documented?
How do you know they haven't tried that? That mayor told you that? Or you just guessing here?


Author Message


Posts: 8
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: af
Location:
Occupation: ya Pimp
Age:
In-game name: -=Borz=-

 
#289 Posted at 2012-09-20 21:05        
     
I assume that the Greek secret services knew perfectly who these 2 guys where, and what they were doing: take pictures to make a copy of the Island as realistically as possible for their game.

And probably they knew they are not dealing with simple tourists, and that BI does military simulators for Armies in several countries, so I guess they would like to have been asked by BI the following:

-"look, we are doing the best badass videogame which probably many of you play and which will bring thousands of more tourists to you Island; therefore, would you be so kind to let us take pictures of the parts that are of public domain with a better angle?"

I imagine this probably did not happen; the greeks just followed 2 guys who took hundreds of videos, photos, etc and they were a bit paranoid about it, perhaps thinking that Turkey might be the next BI client...


But just would like to add one thing regarding the despective comments about Greece I have read in previous posts...

What would happen if someone tries to take pictures next to an US base, lets say in a peaceful please such as panama, or guantamano bay? or what about if you trespass 1 metre of land withing the Area 51? or what about if you try to take a picture of yourself with an Israeli soldier in an road control in Palestine occupied land...?

Ummm, i think Greeks would not be the only country where suspects of Spionage could have got into real trouble for taking an innocent picture. Just think about it a bit.


Anyways, lets just hope that this is just a big misunderstanding, and these 2 guys are released ASAP.

This post was edited by -=Borz=- (2012-09-20 21:15, ago)


Author Message


Posts: 16
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: uk
Location:
Occupation:
Age: 46
In-game name:

 
#290 Posted at 2012-09-20 21:10        
     
I said "I guess" didn't I?
As for the problems with the mayor, they are well documented because initial liaison wasn't done at the start of the project. If they have managed to patch up their differences or not, who knows?


Author Message


Posts: 8
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: af
Location:
Occupation: ya Pimp
Age:
In-game name: -=Borz=-

 
#291 Posted at 2012-09-20 21:22        
     
genpatton43 said: "Other than the Czech Navy launching an amphibious assault? Nah, not that I can think of! *JOKINGLY* :-D"

Well, just remember what 300 spartans did to 1.000.000 persians.
DO you need more graphic details? ;)


Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#292 Posted at 2012-09-20 21:55        
     
What would happen if someone tries to take pictures next to an US base, lets say in a peaceful please such as panama, or guantamano bay? or what about if you trespass 1 metre of land withing the Area 51? or what about if you try to take a picture of yourself with an Israeli soldier in an road control in Palestine occupied land...?

None of above has happened in Lemnos. Lemnos is neither Panama nor Guantanamo Bay nor Palestine. Around Area 51 is fence you have to break to get in - they haven't broken any perimeter nor climbed a fence. From what we know for sure, they have taken a short video from the airfield out of a driving car - that's hardly any usable "reconnaissance" but something tourists do when they arrive at a destination.

People going on holiday usually take their families / girlfriends with them don't they?
Thank god they haven't, else not only 2 innocents were detained but also a young girl, and a pregnant mother with her daughter. :-(


Author Message

Pirin  



Posts: 1547
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Atlanta, GA
Occupation: IT
Age: 46
In-game name: kylania

 
#293 Posted at 2012-09-20 22:06        
     
There's hope! If this guy gets elected I'm sure he'll just stare down Greece till they release our friends. :)


Author Message


Posts: 8
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: af
Location:
Occupation: ya Pimp
Age:
In-game name: -=Borz=-

 
#294 Posted at 2012-09-20 22:08        
     
# Pirin : There's hope! If this guy gets elected I'm sure he'll just stare down Greece till they release our friends. :)

Bloody Hell...
if so, he will be the funkiest president in the whole earth.
And probably also the first black President wearing pink-ink tattoes in Europe, If I am not wrong.

Great!


Author Message


Posts: 2
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: id
Location:
Occupation:
Age:
In-game name:

 
#295 Posted at 2012-09-21 01:54        
     
Let's look at it critically, on one hand they are unfairly detaining Ivan and Martin under the charge of "suspected espionage" which in my opinion, considering the quickness of Greek authorities in detaining them, is blatant and unprofessional. However on the other hand we need to consider that the outer Islands of Greece is strategically important and are under a constant threat from Turkey, and logically security there is largely strict and reasonably paranoid. Whether they actually did took pictures of military installations is irrelevant, hence why they are under the charge of "suspected espionage". Look at it this way, two male-Czech nationals came to an island that is under constant threat from an invading force, that has a military installation located on the island, and both males were bringing photographic equipment. It is highly likely that Greece authorities would be paranoid regarding their presence. I'm up for the release of the Ivan and Martin, but I think that the allegations of Greece being "total assholes" or "have no right for detaining them" is completely false and biased.

P.S. I've noticed people keep pointing out about Greece's economical situation in regards of this. It is highly irrelevant regarding this situation and truth enough it makes you look biased and ignorant. Greece and Turkey has been going at it with one another for a long time, and I think the security and safety of a country with about 11 million people is MUCH more important than a few consumer wants. Why do you think they keep wanting to buying more weapons even under the economical situation?


Author Message

W0lle  

call me evil


Posts: 1968
Rank:


Country: de
Location:
Occupation: CWR III Project Leader
Age: 104
In-game name:

 
#296 Posted at 2012-09-21 02:10        
     
Look at it this way, two male-Czech nationals came to an island that is under constant threat from an invading force, that has a military installation located on the island, and both males were bringing photographic equipment.
From what I understand, Lemnos is a tourist destination as any other too. Else they weren't able to book the vacation through a travel agency. It's maybe not as popular as Cyprus or whatever but it's a tourist destination. And... it's totally normal that tourists bring photographic equipment, really completely normal. Except maybe for North Korea.

No one said the Greeks are assholes. But using some common sense shouldn't be too hard, at least for such well educated people as prosecutors. The fact that after almost 14 days they are still in jail tells me that either someone wants 'revenge' or make an example of them. They surely know long time that they arrested no spies but 2 of the developers 'abusing' their island in arma3.


Author Message


Posts: 35
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Indiana
Occupation: Law Enforcement
Age: 32
In-game name: TheCapulet

 
#297 Posted at 2012-09-21 10:37        
     
"constant threat from Turkey"
Perhaps I'm missing something here.

Last time Turkey and Greece fought in any official capacity was around WW1 when Greece failed miserably while Turkey had to fight (and win) for it's independence.

The last time they had a reason to be pissed at each other, Greece staged a military coup on an island country (not Greece) right next to turkey, to try and unify said island with them. Turkey warned them before hand not to fucking do it, but Greece did it anyways, prompting Turkey to occupy the island to make sure Greece didn't strong arm it's way into occupying more of what essentially amounts to Turkey's coast.

The last time there was any incident at all was in 1996 (16 years ago) when Greece shot down one of Turkey's 20 million dollar planes.

Infact, Greek and Turkey air forces have set up direct comms in '05 to prevent more of their jets getting senselessly shot out of the air.

Where the hell is all this danger and threat to Greece?


Author Message


Posts: 22
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: nl
Location:
Occupation:
Age: 47
In-game name:

 
#298 Posted at 2012-09-21 12:50        
     
update from embassy, no real news will reach us untill the strikes are over.

-----------------
Mr. Hopper,
regarding your enquiry we would like to inform you that both of the Czech Citizens had submitted trough their legal representatives appeals to their cause. As you probably know, the courts in Greece are now on strike and there will be no paperwork done till the strike is over.

The Czech Embassy in Greece is in contact with the legal representative of both retained citizens and is currently coordinating further legal steps and helping both Czech citizens within our and Greek legal frame.
Sincerely
Blanka Kovácsová, Consul
------------------


Author Message


Posts: 16
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: uk
Location:
Occupation:
Age: 46
In-game name:

 
#299 Posted at 2012-09-21 12:56        
     
Generally when travelling somewhere I look at the advice on our Foreign and Commonwealth Office Website. Even if I didn't know about the restrictions on photography (which I have done for 13 yrs since the last incident) the warning is clear:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/greece#safetySecurity:
Generally there are no local travel restrictions, but you should be aware that certain areas near the Greek borders are militarily sensitive. Although these areas can be visited without any problems, do not take photographs or make notes near military or official installations. In addition, travellers should seek permission before photographing individuals.
Not sure if the Czech Gov't has a similar service but there were warnings on the forums from those who know and the info is out there. As soon as I read about Arma3 locations and knowing BIS methods I hoped they had sought some sort of of local approval and worried that arrests could occur which is why I posted a warning as soon as I saw the post about the upset Mayor.

@TheCapulet
The relations between Greece and Turkey has had alternating periods of mutual hostility and reconciliation ever since Greece won its independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1821. This is a very long argument that has lasted over a century. Just because they have had 8 or so years of good relations doesn't mean it will never regress with a change of government in the future. That is why the border in Evros is still heavily mined and interceptions occur daily over the Aegean. One of the reasons I used to like travelling there was the constant air activity particularly over the Sporades. Every day was an airshow and on a scale you don't see anywhere else in Europe.

This post was edited by PELHAM (2012-09-21 13:07, ago)


Author Message


Posts: 128
Rank:


Level: Member

Country: us
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Occupation: Prior Service Vet/Security
Age:
In-game name: GenPatton43

 
#300 Posted at 2012-09-21 13:01        
     
-=Borz=- :
I assume that the Greek secret services knew perfectly who these 2 guys where, and what they were doing: take pictures to make a copy of the Island as realistically as possible for their game.
And probably they knew they are not dealing with simple tourists, and that BI does military simulators for Armies in several countries, so I guess they would like to have been asked by BI the following:
So then, you're implying that Greece has,when it comes to passenger flights, something similar to "Terrorist Watch" list, only for software developers? :-D *JOKINGLY*

Added 9 minutes later:

# -=Borz=- : genpatton43 said: "Other than the Czech Navy launching an amphibious assault? Nah, not that I can think of! *JOKINGLY* :-D"

Well, just remember what 300 spartans did to 1.000.000 persians.
DO you need more graphic details? ;)

Well, see, that was kind of a rhetorical question since, because they're landlocked, the Czech's don't actually have a Navy, at least not in a western sense, therefore I was also being a tad sarcastic as well.

This post was edited by GenPatton43 (2012-09-21 13:11, ago)





This topic is locked, new posts are not allowed.