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#76 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:04        
     
In free countries, if you can see it, you can take a picture, memorize it, draw it, paint it, whatever you'd like.

Free people visiting countries which are assumed free can't be expected to know and follow laws that are contrary to modern liberty.

By the looks of the island, they very easily could have taken these pictures from a good distance away by using elevation.


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#77 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:06        
     
# TheCapulet : In free countries, if you can see it, you can take a picture, memorize it, draw it, paint it, whatever you'd like.

Free people visiting countries which are assumed free can't be expected to know and follow laws that are contrary to modern liberty.

By the looks of the island, they very easily could have taken these pictures from a good distance away by using elevation.

So in USA,Canada,France,Germany,Italy etc.You can go to military bases and take pictures?If it is like this.Ok.


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#78 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:19        
     
Actually, yes. In France you can, i myself live a few kilometers from an army base, and taking photos' far from being a problem. There's one part that's reserved to special forces groups, and you can't take photos, for the simple reason that there's no way you can see anything inside!


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#79 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:20        
     
No you can't just walk in a base and take pictures. There's a perimeter around them with big signs saying "No entry". I however (normally) can walk at that fence and take pictures of that base. Everything the military there doesn't want to be seen I will not see then. And maybe they will come and tell me to go away. But I surely will not be arrested for espionage. That obviously happens only in Greece and North Korea.

Maybe the guys on Lemnos should have extended that perimeter from 100 meters around the installation to 500 meters? But then it would have been 5 times that much fence to build and pay...


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#80 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:40        
     
# W0lle : No you can't just walk in a base and take pictures. There's a perimeter around them with big signs saying "No entry". I however (normally) can walk at that fence and take pictures of that base. Everything the military there doesn't want to be seen I will not see then. And maybe they will come and tell me to go away. But I surely will not be arrested for espionage. That obviously happens only in Greece and North Korea.

Maybe the guys on Lemnos should have extended that perimeter from 100 meters around the installation to 500 meters? But then it would have been 5 times that much fence to build and pay...

It's law.Maybe in germany you can take photos from distance.In greece law says that you cannot take photos of military bases.I won't bother answering your comments about my country on the financial sector.That's who you are you always talk about other people.If you want to make it political I can tell you some bad things that your country did.But you just ignore them because you always forget whatever bad you did.

Added 2 minutes later:

# [FR] Black Mamba : Actually, yes. In France you can, i myself live a few kilometers from an army base, and taking photos' far from being a problem. There's one part that's reserved to special forces groups, and you can't take photos, for the simple reason that there's no way you can see anything inside!

Well as I said before.There is more sensivity on the "espionage" sector because many times turkish agents have been caught having photos from military installations etc.And Lemnos is a very important strategic element for greece.That's why it's so important.

This post was edited by rafael52 (2012-09-12 22:03, ago)


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#81 Posted at 2012-09-12 21:57        
     
@rafael52 there is no need for the caps! please re-edit your post. And I suggest that if you dont
want to discuss this in an orderly fashion then dont bother at all.

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Rules are Rules, they go for this thread too! no politics and keep it friendly.

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#82 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:04        
     
# DarkXess : @rafael52 there is no need for the caps! please re-edit your post. And I suggest that if you dont
want to discuss this in an orderly fashion then dont bother at all.

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Rules are Rules, they go for this thread too! no politics and keep it friendly.

Say this to w0lle too mate.Don't warn only me.


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#83 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:05        
     
# rafael52 : IT'S A LAW.Maybe in germany you can take photos from distance.In greece law says that YOU CANNOT TAKE PICTURES OF MILITARY BASES PERIOD.
So that means if I visit Greece as a tourist I have to study Greece law first to make sure I don't take the "wrong" photos and end up in jail for god knows how long?
No thanks, unless these 2 poor guys returned home safely I won't even consider visiting any part of Greece anymore.

I won't bother answering your comments about my country on the financial sector.That's who you are you always talk about other people.
Me neither because Foxhound clearly said "No political discussion".

Well as I said before.There is more sensivity on the "espionage" sector because many times turkish agents have been caught having photos from military installations etc.
Actually the two guys arrested don't look like Turks to me. But you guys are probably that paranoid already that you see Turkish spies in anyone. And as said before: Why in the world Turkey should invade an almost bankrupt country? And if they want to do that, you really think they don't have the information they need already long time. If they want invade Lemnos, they would just do it and surely don't need to take photos of roads which are clearly visible in Google earth already for everyone.


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#84 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:13        
     
# rafael52 : Say this to w0lle too mate.Don't warn only me.

Simply follow the instructions of a moderator without discussing them. When you have something to discuss about his moderation you can sent him a PM.


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#85 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:20        
     
# W0lle : So that means if I visit Greece as a tourist I have to study Greece law first to make sure I don't take the "wrong" photos and end up in jail for god knows how long?
No thanks, unless these 2 poor guys returned home safely I won't even consider visiting any part of Greece anymore.


Me neither because Foxhound clearly said "No political discussion".


Actually the two guys arrested don't look like Turks to me. But you guys are probably that paranoid already that you see Turkish spies in anyone. And as said before: Why in the world Turkey should invade an almost bankrupt country? And if they want to do that, you really think they don't have the information they need already long time. If they want invade Lemnos, they would just do it and surely don't need to take photos of roads which are clearly visible in Google earth already for everyone.

1st)To be honest I don't really care if you visit greece.But if you do something in your country it doesn't mean that you can do in any country.

2nd)You started it.Check your previous comments.

3rd)So you tell me that if a civilian takes pictures on a place that it's not allowed they'll check if he is from a specific country that may have spies there and then arrest him?The dispute with Turkey is not a new thing.It exists decades if not centuries.You will understand what I'm saying if you have the will to read the history about the greek-turkish wars.
I do not want to offend anyone in here.Answering in friendly tone.

Added 45 seconds later:

# Foxhound : Simply follow the instructions of a moderator without discussing them. When you have something to discuss about his moderation you can sent him a PM.

Ok thank you for your indication.I will keep it in mind.Sorry.


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#86 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:26        
     
Yeah well, there are all kinds of countries with stupid laws, and that one, my friend, is one of them, period. The fact that it is a law doesn't make it intelligent nor a good thing. Neither does the fact there are reasons to it.

This post was edited by [FR] Black Mamba (2012-09-12 23:18, ago)


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#87 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:32        
     
# [FR] Black Mamba : removed

No politics on Armaholic cause that is exactly where this is heading.
Stick to discussing the 2 BI guys being jailed and the reason for which the Greek goverment jailed them.

I have no issues locking this thread if people can not circumvent politics in their posts!
I simply tried to give you all a place in the Arma community to discuss this sadening event of which we all hope it ends soon with all happy sides and would appreciate it if all posts adhere to our forum rules.

This post was edited by Foxhound (2012-09-12 23:20, ago)


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#88 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:38        
     
# [FR] Black Mamba : Yeah well, there are all kinds of countries with stupid laws, and that one, my friend, is one of them, period. The fact that it is a law doesn't make it intelligent nor a good thing. Neither does the fact there are reasons to it. Despite the history between Turkey and Greece, we all know it's not likely Turkey's gonna invade Greece anytime soon.

Well it might be a stupid law my friend.I am not a specialist on army safety matters.And I obviously don't make the laws.I just don't like comments like Tilyard's.And I don't understand since they know who those guys are and what their purpose was,why don't they just let them go,and offer them info and officialy support the game.It can offer a big increase on island's reputation.Anyway I say again that I hope that those two guys who did this trip and came to our country to actually support it in an indirect way will be free soon.


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#89 Posted at 2012-09-12 22:39        
     
# rafael52 : 3rd)So you tell me that if a civilian takes pictures on a place that it's not allowed they'll check if he is from a specific country that may have spies there and then arrest him?The dispute with Turkey is not a new thing.It exists decades if not centuries.You will understand what I'm saying if you have the will to read the history about the greek-turkish wars.

Look, they could have simply checked the identity of these guys, then they would have realized in minutes (if they are slow) that they are Czech and not Turkish.

Second, instead arresting them; they simply could have confiscated the equipment and expelled them from the island/country. The two guys surely wouldn't have visited Greece anymore, but now not only 2 people won't but most probably many, many more. And as I read it, Greece desperately needs tourists visiting the country.
As I said before: with this the Greece damage their reputation even more than it already is.


But maybe then they should treat them like guests, not criminals...


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#90 Posted at 2012-09-12 23:17        
     
# W0lle : Look, they could have simply checked the identity of these guys, then they would have realized in minutes (if they are slow) that they are Czech and not Turkish.
Because there is this rule that you can spy only for your home country, and passports can't be faked. Right?

Regarding photographing military installations, USA, UK and Australia advices against it when traveling abroad. These were easy to find but I would expect many more countries have similar advisories.





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